The ‘Skillz’ side of the debate:
PVP, PVE and Arenas all require very different styles of play, to sum up the arguments to some extent you could say the following (and aye they are rough rough lists but it will give you some idea of my idea of the gameplay);
A good PVP player requires: burst damage, situational awareness, map tactics (BG or world), an ability to look after yourself (bandages potions etc), the ability to player CC, the ability to slow a runner, a knowledge of your own class skills and how they can be used on other players, the ability to deal with being CCed, the ability to be an independent thinker, the ability to move while dealing damage, the ability to work spontaneously with a mix of classes (omg we have no healers!) and unknown toons, have the ability to accept death and use it as a tactic (instant rezzed happy pet), learn to deal with the adrenaline that comes from being attacked by a player character whose actions you cannot predict. The knowledge of good PVP gear and enchants.
Good PVE requires: teamwork, knowledge of team roles (tank healer dps), ability to either be a leader or follow instructions, knowledge your own class skills, a working knowledge of other classes and how they can compliment your class skills and what not to do around them in a group environment (no bubble on tanks!), knowledge of instance tactics, the ability to sustain long periods of damage, an ability to trust the team to look after you (I don’t need to feign because the tank will take this mob if I run to him – or I don’t need to use fear because the hunter is about to trap this mob for me), an ability to manage aggro, the ability to coordinate with or actually coordinate a large group of players, use of appropriate addons and macros, the ability to listen to a RL constructive criticism and apply it. A knowledge of good PVE gear and enchants.
Good Arena teams require:an understanding what makes for good small group class dynamics, refined teamwork, practiced reflexes, a working knowledge about all class weakness and strengths & an ability to stay up-to-date with this, spontaneous decision making skills, good situational awareness, an ability to play with keybindings and macros, the ability to predict another characters actions and act before they are taken, the ability to manipulate another player into burning class cooldowns and taking particular actions, the ability to control combat that should be unpredictable, the ability to apply constructive criticism to yourself and your teammates for game improvement, a competitive nature, map tactics, group tactics.
So yeah from the descriptions above I hope it comes across that I believe that each type of play really does require skills that are nothing to sneeze at (and we aren’t counting any AFKers, BOTers, naked dancing toons or toons that get carried through raid content here… in my little RP mind these are the ‘special’ humanoids of Azeroth who are probably on the battlefield because one of Thralls generals decided that it would be better for the species if they got dismembered as cannon fodder – its survival of the fittest horde side, or if we are talking raids then these empty headed toons well they be the inbred offspring of rich nobility :p.)
Battlegrounds will require a bizarre combo of solo & mob-play skills to survive messy chaos. Instances require communication and cooperation with a set template of class roles. Raids require epic large team management and cooperation. Arenas are the place for sophisticated small team skills. Each requires some knowledge of your class but you have to experience the content to learn which skills work. How good a player is at any of these will depend on how much contact they have had with that kind of game play and if they received any coaching from friends or guilds.
Now heres my spin on the “Do PVE skills Carry over to PVP and vice-versa” controversy.
- No these skills will not help if that person has had no contact or coaching in the other style of gameplay.
- However – Yes skills can be carried over, if you already have some understanding of that game play.
I have been doing instances lately. The instance PUGs (particularly ones like Dark Portal) have taught me, a person who mainly does BG PVP or solo play how to conserve mana for extended battles – now in BGs if I end up on the defensive in a large group I stand further back in the fight and switch to these PVE tactics and as a result I die less because I always have a mana reserve to pop ice trap or wing clip and to use Flare and Wrath.
On the other side of the coin you may have noticed me gloating and ego stroking a few posts back about Lord Ahune and my (awesome) ability to avoid the frost spear. This ability comes from situational awareness that I picked up in the BGs avoiding the various area effects the enemy likes to pop on groups – you notice the first signs and then you move. BGs have also made me a very mobile player. This can be a real advantage in an instance because I remember that I don’t have to stand in one spot, I can move somewhere if it would be more appropriate.
Now sure in of both these cases if I simply participated in PVP or PVE to a greater extent I may have picked up the skills somewhere down the line anyway – what skills a person picks up also has a lot to do with what kind of thinker they are (bloggers tend to reflect on what they have done, I am sure if I up rooted any PVE blogger for a week and made them BG with me – that by the end of that period they would be taking their PVE skills and using them to advantage in the new environment as they learn it.)
Sure you can’t say “Hey because I am great at PVP I will be great at PVE” but you can say “Hey I am great at PVP – give me a chance and you will find I will learn PVE just as well” – even better I will probably be pretty darn good at some of that stuff a PVE toon may not have to do too often, like learning a battle on the fly (in my experience even with a new instance scenario I notice when the boss pops a reflective shield without being told, I see & deal with incoming adds fairly darn quickly and keep them off the healer, I’m bandaged before the druid pops a HOT on me, I can spot oncoming AOE and so on – all these are BG habits.
Of course I also sometimes use multishot to pull (eh misdirect and a pally tank – bad habits that does indeed make) I move around more than I should for sustained dps, and I do forget to feign to dump aggro (well I have pally tank and omen … but it’s a habit I should be cultivating.)
So yeah what was I going on about? … Something like: hey guys I reckon skills do cross over but they don’t replace experience or coaching. And you know what the biggest advantage in BGs, an instance, a raid or even an arena is? It is not gear … or heck not even skill. It is really knowing what to expect from a scenario, like you know the map and goals on it or the way the boss fight goes or what an arena class combo can do. Yay for knowledge – and just reading it don’t help you the way playing it will.
Belch enough preaching on from me.
Linkage to where everyone else is talking about it err and by everyone it looks like a chunk of the druid community at the moment (Bear you be popular everyone reads you … or maybe they heard it first on the podcast too heh):
- BBB’s orginal rant
- 4Heals Bear Rebuttal
- Comments from Tree of Lifeon using PVP gear for PVE
- Resto4life has been to the school of hard knocks
- BBBs second post(this is why people like him hes ranty & good natured)
- Bre from Gun Loving Dwarf Chick dislikes BG whiner-babies hear hear!
- Chain Trap has some nice PVP Tips if you want to get into it and you haven’t before
- Fikkle has a good post on Leading your Battleground to Victory – without them trying to hang you for it
- Armaggedon’s coming to a BG near you
- Ariee.net has a great discussion post on why Blizzard has made changes to allow players more access to gear and the like
- Rambling Bear Bravely Rambles about the impact of PVP on PVE
- Amava Knows PVP teaches better PVE
- Groups of Words Secret Design of WoW PVE: PVP vs PVE – this is a great read!
[EDIT: I’ll probably keep adding PVP vs PVE related links to this list if I can ]
PS: I love reading everyone posting about BG’s and the like … and all I want for christmas in July is PVE gear *wishful sigh*