PVP vs PVE cont.

The ‘Skillz’ side of the debate:

PVP, PVE and Arenas all require very different styles of play, to sum up the arguments to some extent you could say the following (and aye they are rough rough lists but it will give you some idea of my idea of the gameplay);

A good PVP player requires: burst damage, situational awareness, map tactics (BG or world), an ability to look after yourself (bandages potions etc), the ability to player CC, the ability to slow a runner, a knowledge of your own class skills and how they can be used on other players, the ability to deal with being CCed, the ability to be an independent thinker, the ability to move while dealing damage, the ability to work spontaneously with a mix of classes (omg we have no healers!) and unknown toons, have the ability to accept death and use it as a tactic (instant rezzed happy pet), learn to deal with the adrenaline that comes from being attacked by a player character whose actions you cannot predict. The knowledge of good PVP gear and enchants.

Good PVE requires: teamwork, knowledge of team roles (tank healer dps), ability to either be a leader or follow instructions, knowledge your own class skills, a working knowledge of other classes and how they can compliment your class skills and what not to do around them in a group environment (no bubble on tanks!), knowledge of instance tactics, the ability to sustain long periods of damage, an ability to trust the team to look after you (I don’t need to feign because the tank will take this mob if I run to him – or I don’t need to use fear because the hunter is about to trap this mob for me), an ability to manage aggro, the ability to coordinate with or actually coordinate a large group of players, use of appropriate addons and macros, the ability to listen to a RL constructive criticism and apply it. A knowledge of good PVE gear and enchants.

Good Arena teams require:an understanding what makes for good small group class dynamics, refined teamwork, practiced reflexes, a working knowledge about all class weakness and strengths & an ability to stay up-to-date with this, spontaneous decision making skills, good situational awareness, an ability to play with keybindings and macros, the ability to predict another characters actions and act before they are taken, the ability to manipulate another player into burning class cooldowns and taking particular actions, the ability to control combat that should be unpredictable, the ability to apply constructive criticism to yourself and your teammates for game improvement, a competitive nature, map tactics, group tactics.

So yeah from the descriptions above I hope it comes across that I believe that each type of play really does require skills that are nothing to sneeze at (and we aren’t counting any AFKers, BOTers, naked dancing toons or toons that get carried through raid content here… in my little RP mind these are the ‘special’ humanoids of Azeroth who are probably on the battlefield because one of Thralls generals decided that it would be better for the species if they got dismembered as cannon fodder – its survival of the fittest horde side, or if we are talking raids then these empty headed toons well they be the inbred offspring of rich nobility :p.)

Battlegrounds will require a bizarre combo of solo & mob-play skills to survive messy chaos. Instances require communication and cooperation with a set template of class roles. Raids require epic large team management and cooperation. Arenas are the place for sophisticated small team skills. Each requires some knowledge of your class but you have to experience the content to learn which skills work o_O. How good a player is at any of these will depend on how much contact they have had with that kind of game play and if they received any coaching from friends or guilds.

Now heres my spin on the “Do PVE skills Carry over to PVP and vice-versa” controversy.

  • No these skills will not help if that person has had no contact or coaching in the other style of gameplay.
  • However – Yes skills can be carried over, if you already have some understanding of that game play.

For example:
I have been doing instances lately. The instance PUGs (particularly ones like Dark Portal) have taught me, a person who mainly does BG PVP or solo play how to conserve mana for extended battles – now in BGs if I end up on the defensive in a large group I stand further back in the fight and switch to these PVE tactics and as a result I die less because I always have a mana reserve to pop ice trap or wing clip and to use Flare and Wrath.
On the other side of the coin you may have noticed me gloating and ego stroking a few posts back about Lord Ahune and my (awesome) ability to avoid the frost spear. This ability comes from situational awareness that I picked up in the BGs avoiding the various area effects the enemy likes to pop on groups – you notice the first signs and then you move. BGs have also made me a very mobile player. This can be a real advantage in an instance because I remember that I don’t have to stand in one spot, I can move somewhere if it would be more appropriate.

Now sure in of both these cases if I simply participated in PVP or PVE to a greater extent I may have picked up the skills somewhere down the line anyway – what skills a person picks up also has a lot to do with what kind of thinker they are (bloggers tend to reflect on what they have done, I am sure if I up rooted any PVE blogger for a week and made them BG with me – that by the end of that period they would be taking their PVE skills and using them to advantage in the new environment as they learn it.)

Sure you can’t say “Hey because I am great at PVP I will be great at PVE” but you can say “Hey I am great at PVP – give me a chance and you will find I will learn PVE just as well” – even better I will probably be pretty darn good at some of that stuff a PVE toon may not have to do too often, like learning a battle on the fly (in my experience even with a new instance scenario I notice when the boss pops a reflective shield without being told, I see & deal with incoming adds fairly darn quickly and keep them off the healer, I’m bandaged before the druid pops a HOT on me, I can spot oncoming AOE and so on – all these are BG habits.
Of course I also sometimes use multishot to pull (eh misdirect and a pally tank – bad habits that does indeed make) I move around more than I should for sustained dps, and I do forget to feign to dump aggro (well I have pally tank and omen … but it’s a habit I should be cultivating.)

So yeah what was I going on about? … Something like: hey guys I reckon skills do cross over but they don’t replace experience or coaching. And you know what the biggest advantage in BGs, an instance, a raid or even an arena is? It is not gear … or heck not even skill. It is really knowing what to expect from a scenario, like you know the map and goals on it or the way the boss fight goes or what an arena class combo can do. Yay for knowledge – and just reading it don’t help you the way playing it will.

Belch enough preaching on from me.

Linkage to where everyone else is talking about it err and by everyone it looks like a chunk of the druid community at the moment (Bear you be popular everyone reads you … or maybe they heard it first on the podcast too heh):

[EDIT: I’ll probably keep adding PVP vs PVE related links to this list if I can :) ]

PS: I love reading everyone posting about BG’s and the like … and all I want for christmas in July is PVE gear *wishful sigh*

About Bytes

Guild Officer, occasional raid leader and 10man raid healer. My current main is a Disc Priest (OS Shadow). I am interested in research and new technology RL side. These skills carry over into the hobby.
This entry was posted in Arena, Great Green Hunter, Old Blog Content, PVE, PVP, Snake in the Grass, World of warcraft and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.

7 Responses to PVP vs PVE cont.

  1. gnomeaggedon says:

    I am probably in a similar position, although more PvE than PvP.

    Probably wont see much more than Gruuls (Got one look at Lurker.. that was a bonus), we never complete a whole Kara, so maximum of 12 badges a week – and these days we can’t field enough players to make the long LFM search worthwhile. No time for Heroics, and little time for PvP, as much as I enjoy it.

    So, I guess for some it’s easy loot… for me it’s obtainable loot.

    Though I guess in reality the level I gear I already have is appropriate level for the encounters I will see. Is T5 gear too much for T4 content? Whatever.. if it means I can see a bit more, before it’s too late, then it’s a bonus for me.

    No being hardcore either way, my nose wont go out of joint.. I will just appreciate what I can now possibly get.

    And as you say, in 6 months time, it will be nothing more than enchanting mats.

  2. Dave says:

    This blog has quickly become one of my favorites. Well written and updated regularly. Well done!

  3. Pike says:

    Very good post! =) You can definitely cross skills between PvP and PvE even though the playstyle for each ESPECIALLY as a hunter is so very different.

    I like being able to have both a good set of PvE gear and a good set of PvP gear. Now if only I could switch between PvE and PvP specs with the drop of a hat…

  4. gnomeaggedon says:

    @ Pike, although it doesn’t let you change specs “anywhere” (you need to be at the trainer still) I wrote today on a mod that makes the spec changing a lot less painful: http://gnomeaggedon.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/gnome-googles-on-talented/

  5. Lactic Acid says:

    ^_^ thanks guys positive feedback is awesome!

    Hee I heard rumors that Death Knights will need to respec a lot – so they may at least remove the costs or make it easier to do.

    1 click respecs would be awesome now it takes longer to level.

  6. dionadar says:

    Actually, a lot of the skills (movement, looking after one’s selve, conserving resources, adapting to losses…) become important both in high-level pvp as in high-level pvp.

    What’s more important than “skill carry-over” is quite simply:
    players who do 1 time unit of pve und 1 time unit of pvp are better at both, than people who do 2 time units of either.

    Once you get past the learning curve for each.

  7. Lactic Acid says:

    True … PVP & PVE are both good to do with a view to balance :)

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